California Gov. Gavin Newsom is one of the most powerful Democrats in the United States, but this week he used his habitat not to postpone the Trump administration, but instead podcasting with the intellectual architect of the Maga movement: Stephen K. Bannon.
Their fast-paced long discussions are both kind and full of predictable differences. But the dialogue reveals some curious policy overlap and may expose everyone’s perspective to the other’s supporters.
“It’s part of the process that makes you a globalist and make you a populist nationalist,” Bannon said. “It’s been a long journey.”
Mr. Newsom seemed happy: “This is part of the undo programming, isn't it?”
But Mr. Bannon didn’t have as many opportunities to put pressure on Mr. Newsom, but he did as he roughly covered some of the most complex problems facing the country and the world.
The podcast is the latest episode of “This Is Gavin Newsom”, where he hosts several outstanding conservatives. Bannon's conversation focused on economic issues, avoiding the early episode of cultural war themes dominating the way he broke into while talking about trans athletes with other party leaders.
Mr. Bannon's tenor began early, when Mr. Newsom did not have repeated false claims from the guests that President Trump won the 2020 election. The governor does not seem to see the discussion as a fact-checking meeting: He was only intermittently interjecting, including Mr. Bannon calling Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren “Pocahontas.”
“Senator Warren,” Mr. Newsom said.
Mr. Bannon continues to repeat the derogatory nickname.
Instead, Mr. Newsom and Mr. Bannon sometimes focus on some surprising commonalities, including suspicion of Elon Musk and disgust with the wealthy and corporate tax cuts.
“The upper bracket shouldn't get it, even if some companies just want to do stock buybacks, they shouldn't get it.”
Later, Mr. Newsom urged him: “Tell your president, Steve.”
Mr. Bannon publicly tried to recruit Mr. Newsom into what he called an economic populist approach, applauding another California Democrat, Representative Ro Khanna, and Sen. John Fetterman of Pennsylvania.
“If we ever control the oligarchy, then as governors, frankly, the party leader is the party leader and has to work with us and say, 'Hey, this can't go on any longer.”
Mr. Bannon then praised Lina Khan, former chairman of the Federal Trade Commission led by President Joseph R. Biden Jr., who was insulted by many business leaders.
“He got rid of her!” Mr. Newsom said of Mr. Trump.
“I don't think Lina Khan's name ever crossed Kamala Harris' lips,” Mr. Bannon tried to push back.
“I don't remember,” said Mr. Newsom.
Mr. Newsom sometimes goes to Mr. Bannon, who wants to significantly reduce the size of the federal government, because of whether Mr. Trump is really aligned with the cause.
Mr. Newsom recounts Mr. Trump waving his hands to refute the impact of the deficit when he rode on the Marines. “Printing press,” Mr. Newsom quoted the president. “Printing machine.”
Mr. Bannon insisted that Mr. Trump was joking.
Newsom retorted: “It's not the way he ruled in the first four years, I'm not sure he is.”
Mr Bannon called for cuts in military spending and plans used by many Republican voters, such as Medicaid.
He added: “There are a lot of magazines for Medicaid, and it won’t be painless.”
Mr. Newsom has long been fascinated by the conservative media ecosystem and said Republicans are using mass communication tools to spread their message. Mr Newsom, widely regarded as a potential contender in his 2028 presidential campaign in his final two years as governor, is trying out a new channel.
Last summer, he started a podcast called “Politicin'” with his long-time friend Doug Hendrickson and former professional footballer Marshawn Lynch. Despite this name, the podcast discusses politics, but rather in the hosts, in the form of celebrity interviews and drama bans.
Mr. Newsom decided this year to break and create a solo podcast focused on political dialogue that began with leading figures in Mr. Trump’s movement. In his debut last week, Mr. Newsom shocked some liberal allies when his guest Charlie Kirk led the youth group to turn to the United States, agreeing that it was “very unfair” for trans students to participate in the women’s movement.
Commentator Michael Savage told the governor that Mr Bannon did not raise the topic, although another Conservative, whom Mr. Noor had on the podcast this week, said Democrats’ support for transgender young people failed them in last year’s election. In that episode, Mr. Newsom also mentioned his recent visit to the Oval Office with the President to seek disaster assistance to help Los Angeles recover from huge wildfires in January.
“We get along well with me,” Mr Newsom said.
Mr. Musk is a compelling topic in his conversation with Mr. Bannon, whom Mr. Bannon calls “parasitic illegal immigration.”
“We may have some commonalities in focusing on what he is doing,” Mr Newsom said.
“Wait, hold on,” Mr. Bannon interrupted. “You like all the oligarchs, especially Elon, until they flip.”
Mr. Bannon, who measured in the attack on Mr. Musk, the world’s wealthiest man, praised some of the cuts he pursued through the so-called government efficiency sector. He also “supported” Mr. Musk's credibility with a $280 million super PAC spending.
“What was his final match?” asked Mr. Newsom.
Mr. Bannon said California has actually made Mr. Musk rise through the rise of state incentives for clean cars: “Well, you know, you-you created him, Governor.”
Mr. Newsom does not object. “By the way, California does do it in many ways,” he said. “It’s our regulatory process and our subsidies to create this market. You’re 100% correct.”
